Two weeks ago I
wondered aloud what specifically Tenet was being used as a scapegoat for. I may have got my answer today:
DoD transcript 06-17-04
Q Mr. Secretary, I'd like to ask why last November you ordered the U.S. military to keep a suspected Ansar al-Islam prisoner in Iraq secret from the Red Cross. He's now been secret for more than seven months. And there are other such shadowy prisoners in Iraq who are being kept secret from the Red Cross.
SEC. RUMSFELD: With respect to the -- I want to separate the two. Iraq, my understanding is that the investigations on that subject are going forward.
With respect to the detainee you're talking about, I'm not an expert on this, but I was requested by the Director of Central Intelligence to take custody of an Iraqi national who was believed to be a high-ranking member of Ansar al-Islam. And we did so. We were asked to not immediately register the individual. And we did that. It would -- it was -- he was brought to the attention of the Department, the senior level of the Department I think late last month. And we're in the process of registering him with the ICRC at the present time.
Q Well, why did you not register the individual, and has this man simply been lost in the system for -- why didn't you tell the Red Cross that you had him?
SEC. RUMSFELD: The decision was made that it would be appropriate not to for a period. And he wasn't lost in the system. They've known where he was, and that he was there in Iraq, for this period of time.
Q How is that appropriate, sir, when you say that you -- all prisoners in Iraq are being treated humanely under rules set up --
SEC. RUMSFELD: He has been treated humanely. There's no implication of any problem. He was not at Abu Ghraib. He is not there now. He has never been there, to my knowledge. There's no question at all about whether or not he's received humane treatment.
Q But then why wasn't the -- why wasn't the Red Cross told, and there are other such prisoners being detained without the knowledge of the Red Cross?
SEC. RUMSFELD: There are -- there are instances where that occurs. And a request was made to do that, and we did.
Q I -- I mean -- excuse me, is there a reason for that, sir, why -- why they're not told? There are those who would say, I guess, that -- that you're not telling them because you might be mistreating such prisoners. That might be the suspicion.
SEC. RUMSFELD: That -- I understand that. That's not the case at all. And I think that will be clear.
Q Well, the other thing is General Taguba has criticized this practice in his report, calling them ghost detainees.
SEC. RUMSFELD: I recall that. And as I say, that's being investigated. This -- this individual, this Ansar al-Islam individual I think should be looked at separately from that.
Q Why is that? Is he a ghost detainee --
Q Which --
Q -- was he a ghost detainee?
SEC. RUMSFELD: We've had subject matter experts down here to brief you, and they've been briefing the Congress, and the Congress has been briefed on this extensively, I think, Dan, is that correct? And they've been down here and briefed the press as they're able to.
[snip]
Q What did George Tenet ask? Why did he want this done?
SEC. RUMSFELD: We've asked them.
Q Well, can you say what he said to you?
Q I mean, you --
Q It says you received a letter from him, sir.
SEC. RUMSFELD: I did. I think I did in this case. And it's a classified letter.
Q What was his reasoning? Why did he --
SEC. RUMSFELD: Ask him. It's a classified letter.
[snip]
Q Sir, did he ask you to do this or tell you to do this? You say you had no intention of keeping this man secret from the Red Cross, so why didn't then you --
SEC. RUMSFELD: We had no --
Q -- tell Mr. Tenet, "All right, we'll take custody but we're not going to -- we're going to register him"?
SEC. RUMSFELD: As we get more information, we'll make it available to you.
Q And the last thing. (Off mike.) How is this case different from what Taguba was talking about, the ghost detainees?
SEC. RUMSFELD: It is just different, that's all.
Q But can you explain how and why?
SEC. RUMSFELD: I can't. But we'll be happy to have someone come down and brief you and explain it.
Q In this case, this is not a violation of international law, as opposed to some of the cases that General Taguba was talking about?
SEC. RUMSFELD: I said I don't know. Are you making assertions for the benefit of everyone else?
Q No. No. My question --
SEC. RUMSFELD: I don't know.
Q Okay.
Q Mr. Secretary, is this a one-of-a-kind case, or is this one of several or more?
SEC. RUMSFELD: We have on occasion received people from the agency -- I can think of an additional case right off the top of my head -- where they have, for whatever reason, captured somebody or arrested somebody or been given somebody and at some moment brought them to us and said would you please take custody of this person. I think there are some -- (to staff)-- that's correct, isn't it? Yeah.
Q But how many have they asked you not to register?
SEC. RUMSFELD: I don't know. As I say, we'll be happy to tell you more when we get more.
Q Did Director Tenet ask you to wait for a particular period of time --
SEC. RUMSFELD: Not that I recall.
Q -- or was this an open-ended thing?
SEC. RUMSFELD: Not that I recall.
Q Mr. Secretary, to take you back a little further, to late summer, when a lot of -- a number of officials were expressing concern that adequate intelligence was not being gotten from detainees in Iraq, do you recall discussing that with Steve Cambone? And did you ask that anything in particular be done about that at that point?
SEC. RUMSFELD: I don't recall that.
And then there is this part:
Q You seem to be drawing a distinction between that and the order that you sent out that allowed this other prisoner to be not registered immediately. Why is --
SEC. RUMSFELD: I'm not an expert on that. Dan Dell'Orto is. And what I can say is that I think it's broadly understood that people do not have be registered in 15 minutes when they come in. What the appropriate period of time is I don't know. It may very well be a lot less than seven months, but it may be a month or more.
Dan, do you want to -- is there --
MR. DELL'ORTO: And they should be registered promptly, sir. So --
SEC. RUMSFELD: Its phraseology is "promptly?"
MR. DELL'ORTO: Roughly that, yes.
SEC. RUMSFELD: Fair enough.
He was held for 7 MONTHS without being registered.
